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SIGIA-L Mail Archives: Re: [Sigia-l] JJG + A Brand New Bag

Re: [Sigia-l] JJG + A Brand New Bag

From: Derek R (
Date: Thu Jul 10 2003 - 14:43:14 EDT

I wrote:

>>| if you *don't know* how the basic life-cycle works

Lyle replied:

>| If you don't know (everything) about...
>| If you don't know (everything) about...
>| If you don't know (everything) about...
> etc.

First off, there is an obvious difference between how *basic* stuff
works and 'everything.' Let's be serious here.

Second, if you *don't know* that in order to have an online business you
need an idea to bring online -- where are you? Realistically, you are at
square-one, which is out-of-the-business.

What are JJG's diagrams indicating beyond 'idea-for-market' -->
'online' ?

I understand he is favorable to buzz-word terminology which may appear
in your chosen title, but again, let's be serious about what we are
promoting here.

>| Roles and responsibilities should always be fuzzy [sarcasm]

I think it is of primary importance to note that real human beings in
social settings are the ones who perform work, and not some '9-point'
plan or pre-defined role. IF things could get done by following a simply
check-list then we wouldn't need any human capital and could just let
the computers do things by themselves.

In reality, however, this is not the case, and business needs to invest
in *humans,* (those engaged in genuine processes), as their primary
capital -- and not investment in draconian systems which treat people
like commodities.

There is much we could discuss along these lines.


Again, to be serious, the shelf-life of JJG's diagrams for practical
business use must be very short. Those uninformed 'baby-boomer'
executives and management-types will be retiring in short order, and the
replacing *young* generation is not, I predict, going to be sympathetic
to such 'elementary' (to use JJG's word ~ same as 'basic') definitions.

In short, exposure to all kinds of technology has prepared these new Web
Developers for a much more *open* and *exploratory* role. We don't need
to talk-down to them, but rather, like a thoroughbred, just harness the
power. These kids are doing things with cell-phones it would take JJG
decades to diagram!

So again, to be serious, what are JJG's diagrams indicating beyond
'idea-for-market' --> 'online' ? ** What place does this approach really
have today, and in the future, beyond a lowest-common-denominator
champion to hold up buzz-words for a group of people because therein all
their hope lies? **

These questions require a serious answer.

>| You have to know that you're blowing this out of proportion, right?

Darling Sean, this is a discussion list which is apparently opposed to
discussion. There is no proportion! If people were to engage in genuine
discussion *without fear* of how their ego and 'possession of ideas' are
made vulnerable they would see how they really have nothing at stake
(it's a group effort) and can afford to come together, to lock minds
together, to brainstorm and flush-out *community* ideas -- ideas which
everyone together can draw and take part in. It is impossible to have a
community when everyone is afraid of stepping-on-toes. That just
promotes isolation and compulsive behavior.

We should attempt to broaden our horizons in every way possible: through
discussion and study, new and unfamiliar experiences, meeting people
from totally different backgrounds -- instead of running away from every
criticism and fear!

We must be mature enough to engage in conversation outside that of our
immediate friends/network (i.e. to be open to new ideas and not fixed on
maintaining the status-quo ~ a closed system). Like this, we should be
careful about people who are not willing to discuss their
ideas/triumphs/problems in an open manner. This behavior stimulates
creation of fantasies and drifting off into private worlds.

Almost everyone feels in one way or another unsure of themselves,
vulnerable or inferior with regard to their contributions on this list.
But you have nothing to fear! Some of us need to drop this strong
attachment to ideas they have contributed and general attitudes of
possessiveness because you end up unconsciously identifying with your
own value system to such an extent that you feel every challenge as a
direct challenge to yourself -- and discussion is not possible in such
an environment.

So this is an plea to everyone, and certain groups in particular, to
stop the infighting and get their acts together. This split between
certain IAs and this list (which plagues us all) is an outward
reflection of our industry as a whole. Instead, express your
self-confidence by being above petty irritations! This list would do
well with a burst of energy which will come from everybody working
together harmoniously.


"United we stand, divided we fall."

"Taking sides is subversive to unity."

When replying, please *trim your post* as much as possible.
*Plain text, please; NO Attachments

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