Joe, Actually this job description makes perfect sense to me. It's just not specific enough. When they say "Architect/Designer capabilities", they must mean "systems architect or systems designer". Some companies refer to this role as "application architect" -- this is someone who helps put a complete system or application in place. If you've heard of "n-tier" applications, you know that in today's systems model there are many pieces that all have to work together to make one complete "application". E.g. you have browser, web server, app server, database, integration/messaging, back-end legacy systems, reporting tools, and various middleware. A systems/application architect helps describe what the parts are, how they interact, etc. In object oriented development shops an an architect may blueprint (or design) the various objects in the application code. Here is another definition: Application Architect The application architect is responsible for identifying the subsystems of the application and the interfaces between subsystems. The messaging that occurs between subsystems requires an architecture that identifies the information passed between subsystems and the expected returned value(s). Application architects working on object oriented projects identify the classes that belong within each subsystem at a high level. They begin creating the class hierarchies that are further detailed as interactive development continues. Here's a different kind of "architect": Data Architect The data architect is responsible for identifying the entities, attributes, and relationships among entities as the logical entity relation diagram is created and moves to a physical implementation. The person in this role searches for appropriate ways to reuse and extend existing entities in the database. Titles and role labels are very inconsistent in industry...you have to look at job duties to understand what the position really entails. The distinction between Design and other discipline is one of my favorite soap boxes...I'll spare you the rant. Unfortunately few companies have "designers" that truly only do design. Many "designers" are really in a "coder", "graphic artist", or other type of role with a fancy sounding misnomer. Best of luck in the job search! Regards, Lyle Kantrovich User Experience Architect Cargill http://www.cargill.com/ Personal Web Log: http://crocolyle.blogspot.com/ Daily commentary on usability, information architecture and web design. -----Original Message----- From: kathleen@kleininfodesign.com [mailto:kathleen@kleininfodesign.com] Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 1:05 PM To: joe@joelamantia.com; sigia-l@asis.org Subject: RE: SIGIA-L: Is Rome burning? Unreasonable expectations and the fate of IA as independent... Hi I think you're feeling the job-hunting blues. Note the job title is "web developer." I wouldn't look to an IA to have many of these skills. Job hunting is such a difficult task - be sure to give yourself plenty of mental health breaks. During a grueling hunt in the past I rewarded myself with visits to area museums. It saved my sanity (and gave me a better perspective on the job hunt). - Kathleen Klein Info Design information architecture/project management kathleen@kleininfodesign.com www.kleininfodesign.com 206-781-2615 -----Original Message----- From: owner-sigia-l@asis.org [mailto:owner-sigia-l@asis.org]On Behalf Of Joe Lamantia Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 8:47 AM To: sigia-l@asis.org Subject: SIGIA-L: Is Rome burning? Unreasonable expectations and the fate of IA as independent... All, Here's another of the "everything in one" impossible job descriptions that I've seen become so much more common in the past year. The awesome combination of skill / experience requirements (Oracle 9i expert and designer, with a CS degree?) in this gives me genuine pause. The massive amount of work this community is engaged in to reach some level of self-definition will all be for naught if there are few jobs that recognize the independent value of the discipline. At this point, I'm unfortunately too deeply engaged in my job search to recommend much in the way of a solution, but am wondering if anyone else is beginning to fell a sense of alarm at this? We know that HR often synthesizes these sorts of things from ten different lists of skills, and that any progress towards chaning that practice will be slow and grudging at best - but we still need to explore how to counteract the assumption that knowing a DB and middleware langauge qualifies one to execute a complete portal interface and functionality redesign. Joe Lamantia Link: http://www.hotjobs.com/cgi-bin/job-show?J__PINDEX=J129211NB Excerpt: <--------------------------------------- Job Description Provide Professional Services and Technology expertise to our clients and other NET2S teams for complex projects. Design and develop an e-Portal platform to integrate various applications/components that comprise the OSS/BSS infrastructure. Also revamp the intranet and design the extranet. Qualifications Degree in Computer Science or Communication Technologies (BS or Master) 3+ years hands-on experience < Excellent command of Oracle 9i products (including Oracle 9i application server) Strong Java/J2EE/XML/Corba Development skills Experience in OSS/BSS environment Architect/Designer capabilities Involvement in the entire development of the project life cycle Able to mentor and transfer knowledge to the customer engineering team Leadership abilities + excellent interpersonal and communication skills ---------------------------------------->